Humanizing FinTech: Simplifying Innovation, Tackling Financial Stress, and Embracing AI with Remco Veenenberg, Co-Founder of ThinkFintech

In this episode of Banking on Information, Rutger van Faassen interviews Remco Veenenberg, co-founder of ThinkFintech. They discuss the intersection of psychology and FinTech, the mission of ThinkFintech to simplify complex financial concepts, and the importance of stakeholder analysis in helping FinTech companies succeed. Remco shares insights on the future of banking, the role of AI, and the necessity of maintaining human interaction in financial services.

Keywords

FinTech, psychology, stakeholder analysis, AI, banking, digital currencies, customer experience, marketing strategy, mental health, financial stress

Takeaways

• Remco's background in psychology informs his approach to FinTech.
• Reducing financial stress can lead to better decision-making.
• ThinkFintech aims to simplify complex financial concepts for everyday people.
• Stakeholder analysis is crucial for FinTech companies to succeed.
• Marketing and sales alignment is often lacking in FinTech.
• A compelling story is essential for differentiation in a saturated market.
• The future of banking will still include traditional banks alongside FinTech.
• AI will significantly impact customer service in banking.
• Human interaction remains vital in financial services despite AI advancements.
• Companies should avoid over-relying on chatbots for customer service.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to FinTech and Psychology

01:59 The Role of Think Fintech

04:56 Understanding Client Value and Needs

07:35 Futures Thinking: The Banking Landscape in 2035

10:32 Preparing for AI in FinTech

Transcript

Rutger Van Faassen (00:01.244)
Hello and welcome to another episode of Banking on Information. Today my guest is Remco Veenenberg who is co-founder of ThinkFintech Welcome to the podcast Remco.

Remco Veenenberg (00:13.871)
Thank you very much, Rutger, for having me and I'm delighted to be able to share my experience today in your podcast

Rutger Van Faassen (00:21.628)
Right, Well we'll start with that very important first question, which is why Remco, do you do what you do?

Remco Veenenberg (00:28.517)
That's very simple, actually. I don't want to go into detail, but I'm originally a psychologist. So I studied neuroscience, actually. So I come from a very different angle than most bankers. actually come. And my main drive is to see how FinTech can possibly impact people's daily lives. That's basically my tagline. So...

Rutger Van Faassen (00:40.317)
Mm-hmm.

Remco Veenenberg (00:56.545)
If you reduce financial stress, then you will also see that people will make better decisions, better judged decisions mostly, because financial stress is related to mental illness. So I combined my background with what I'm currently doing. And I think it's all about

I tried to turn FinTech into something that is tangible for people. So, you know, like when we talk about all of these, these jargon terms and stuff that people don't understand. If I would walk, If I would walk on the street in Netherlands in my hometown and I would start talking smack about blockchain to some random shop owner, he's just going to look at me like, I don't get it, you know? Yeah.

Rutger Van Faassen (01:51.654)
Nope. Nope.

Remco Veenenberg (01:53.636)
So I try to make complex things more simple in order to improve people's lives. That's basically my mission.

Rutger Van Faassen (02:00.837)
Right. Now that is very interesting to have that psychology background and neuroscience and you're really trying to do things at the human level. And I think that's that's quite quite interesting how you're trying to keep things simple and human because sometimes in finance we can get a little bit carried away with all jargon that you're what you're talking about. Right. And using all these fancy terms that many people actually don't understand. Now what is it Remco that you that you do with ThinkFintech?

Remco Veenenberg (02:30.001)
Okay, with ThinkFintech, it's basically, it's chill and it's in a child's shoes, okay? So we're still at the very beginning of our journey. I'm joined by two companions. One of them is from Lithuania, one of them is from Dubai, which is something, it's a powerful combination. One of them is a senior banker and the other one is a senior FinTech. So.

That makes a good team because what we're trying to do is a bit different. from my personal mission, but that's apart from my normal work. Let's put it that way. What we're trying to do is we're trying to come up with a good package where we help fintechs being successful in selling to banks or working with them. This all comes down to something that we call stakeholder analysis,

and sales and marketing alignment. What I mean with that is a lot of FinTech companies think that they have found a solution which actually makes no sense at all. And I'm not the kind of guy about, I'm always honest, okay? So I'm going to Lithuania in one week. In that country, there are almost 270 e-money institutions at this moment. Probably more, some of their licenses have actually been revoked.

Rutger Van Faassen (03:38.183)
Mm-hmm.

Rutger Van Faassen (03:47.484)
Mm-hmm.

Remco Veenenberg (03:58.684)
due to violation with regulation and violation with the central bank. But if you look at the offering of all of these companies, the real question comes up, why are you different? And how do you differentiate yourself in a market that is becoming increasingly saturated? And the European fintech market is saturated. Let's be very honest with you, Rutger, I will ask you a question. If Revolut would...

Rutger Van Faassen (04:21.201)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Right.

Remco Veenenberg (04:28.368)
Do everything for your financial needs. Would you consider picking another player?

Rutger Van Faassen (04:36.135)
They're pretty doing it pretty well... right? So, yeah, they a new player would have to have something unique for me, that I for me to pick it

Remco Veenenberg (04:46.226)
Exactly, and this is one of our key areas. So we look at the very critical, let's say strategic business model. We look at the marketing strategy because very often marketing and sales are not aligned at all within Fintech companies. So, And you need to have them on the same page, both of them. Otherwise,

Rutger Van Faassen (05:04.987)
Right. Yeah.

Rutger Van Faassen (05:12.401)
Yep. Yep.

Remco Veenenberg (05:15.078)
chance of success are lower and you need to have a story. This is exactly what you said in your podcast, out view, Simon Sinek. We don't buy what you do, we buy why you do it, right? And this is something that is very often missed, unfortunately.

Rutger Van Faassen (05:24.967)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rutger Van Faassen (05:29.521)
Yes. Right. Yep.

Rutger Van Faassen (05:34.139)
Yeah, right. And so you help fintechs get that message right and make sure that they get their sales and marketing strategy so that they are unique and that they have a very targeted market that is different from what the Revolutes are doing so that they stand a chance in the European market.

Remco Veenenberg (05:52.467)
Well, it's quite hard to make yourself stand out against Revolut at the moment, but it is important to tell a vision and a story. There are so many of these payment institutions that I'm like, why? They offer me a digital wallet? I already have one.

Rutger Van Faassen (05:58.365)
Mm-hmm.

Rutger Van Faassen (06:07.355)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, so when you work with your clients, how do they express what the value is of what you do? When they, when they sort of say, Hey, Remco was great working with you. We really like doing this. Or we like that you provided us with... What is the value that they say you give them?

Remco Veenenberg (06:13.584)
Yo.

Remco Veenenberg (06:31.389)
I would say the value that I give them is a new purpose. So we're really working together on a partnership level. Also at ThinkFintech at the moment, as I said, we're still in our early stage. yeah. So maybe some use cases will come out hopefully soon. And of course we are not, we are tailoring everything we do. So there is not a single standard approach.

This means that for example, a young FinTech company with a little budget, of course, we're not going to handle them as a banking Institute or, you know, let's say a scale up or enterprise level company because they don't have the budget for it for they need some help. So we stand for two things. One is helping the scale ups succeed. And on the other hand, we also try to help startups.

And yeah, we have to handle them differently. basically the end result is simple. So we do a little bit of screening. So we try to identify the pain. This is something that a lot of startups also don't really understand. It's like, you need a good pain point to start with. Yeah.

Rutger Van Faassen (07:55.697)
Yep. Right. Yep.

Remco Veenenberg (07:57.716)
So that's also our approach. So first we listen. you out. We try to identify where are the obstacles within the organization. And this can be across so many levels that we also have to narrow it down. On the other hand, we need to also be able to address them. It could be in sales, it could be in the marketing team, it could be in the C-level team, it could be in compliance, regulation. We have to identify who is the

CTO, who is the CFO, maybe if the most companies have the CFO, who is the CMO, and I hopefully hope that they have one because otherwise it's gonna be really difficult today. And we try to identify all the needs of these people. So one of the main questions that we take is, what is keeping your customer up at night? And we approach it from this point of view. So,

Rutger Van Faassen (08:28.839)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rutger Van Faassen (08:52.015)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Remco Veenenberg (08:57.031)
It might be that I am the right person to talk to when it comes to your stage performance, your sales and marketing strategy, but maybe it's better to talk to one of my companions who has worked or built actually multiple greenfield banks. He knows exactly how the banking system works and he knows it at a better level than I do. I'll be that honest and or they can talk to my Lithuanian companion who

has years of experience selling to banks and knows what the pitfalls are. So we try to help everyone on a kind of tailored level, depending on needs, basically. But at the core stands the stakeholder analysis. That's the most important part. Yeah.

Rutger Van Faassen (09:42.034)
Right. Yeah. So you bring the outside consulting advisor view and with your companions, you bring lots of experience, which I think that's, certainly helpful. right? An outside view on things and experience of having done this, this before. think that is, that is very valuable. Now I'd like to do this thing called Futures Thinking. Now we don't know what the future is going to, going to hold, but we can think about what possible futures could look like. So if you look 10 years out, so 2035,

What do you think the banking landscape is going to look like? I know it's a long way out, 10 years out, what do you think that could look like?

Remco Veenenberg (10:19.99)
10 years, it's a long time. I would actually say that I still don't really, I'm still on the very skeptical side of digital currencies. Although we have recently seen a change with the Trump administration, which has to be acknowledged. though. I mean, although it didn't really go well. I don't.

Rutger Van Faassen (10:22.161)
Mm-hmm.

Rutger Van Faassen (10:32.785)
Mm-hmm.

Remco Veenenberg (10:48.462)
It's very hard to predict because when I talk to daily people like this is owners and those kind of, and the problems that they're facing. I think that one of the core things that I've come to realize in the last few years is that FinTech has become a commodity. If you know what I mean, it's not, it's no longer a disruptive force. It's something part of our lives.

Rutger Van Faassen (11:08.199)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Remco Veenenberg (11:16.979)
It's already integrated almost everywhere. Even people in the Netherlands started to use, I mean, still ABN AMRO one of the Dutch banks. Yeah, it's convenient enough for people who spend most of their lives in the Netherlands. But I've seen a great adoption of Revolut across the whole country. The problem is how is Revolut going to diversify itself?

Or going to offer products that make the business model a little bit more sustainable. I mean, investment products and all these, it's very hard to predict the future for FinTech at the moment, I would say, for the banking landscape. But there's one thing for sure. The traditional banks aren't going anywhere. Yeah, So many years ago, there was like a lot of like,

you know, saying like, banks will disappear and, have we seen it happen? Not really. And one major trends at absolutely is it's undeniable. I think that AI will change the landscape for a very large part, actually. At the moment I have a detector on my laptop, which will

Rutger Van Faassen (12:20.795)
Right.

Rutger Van Faassen (12:33.575)
Exactly. Yep.

Remco Veenenberg (12:42.61)
If you say something with chat GPT, I will know. Let's put it that way. Yeah, yeah. But there will be some real big tension in the next few years between banks already changing jobs. We see that customer service is completely changing as well. I've always said that when it comes to a

Rutger Van Faassen (12:46.619)
Right, okay, there you go. Interesting.

Rutger Van Faassen (13:05.799)
Yeah, right.

Remco Veenenberg (13:10.967)
sensitive financial matter. I want to talk to a human being. I'm sorry, but that's just how I am. And of course we have all of these generational differences. So if we go 10 years into the future,

Rutger Van Faassen (13:17.967)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Remco Veenenberg (13:28.096)
We don't know how Generation X will have been changed. And at that time I will be at the age of...

Rutger Van Faassen (13:34.449)
Right. Yeah.

Remco Veenenberg (13:39.895)
Oh, I will be getting old. So, and all of these, these trends, like there, there's so many of them. It's, it's, it's hard to predict. The new

Rutger Van Faassen (13:53.692)
Right. But so I hear I hear you say banks will still be around, right? Maybe digital currencies will play a role, but absolutely AI is going to change everything.

Remco Veenenberg (13:58.313)
Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Remco Veenenberg (14:04.117)
Maybe central bank digital currency will play a role.

Rutger Van Faassen (14:08.485)
Right, okay. But then AI is gonna be the big change, right? That's the big change of our lifetime. Now, how can people get ready today for that change that we're gonna see with AI? If you advise any of the fintechs that you work with, what can they do today to get ready for that change that's coming in AI?

Remco Veenenberg (14:26.885)
And that's actually quite simple. So basically, please don't replace people who handle serious matters by a chatbot. That's one of my first advices because I do see companies doing this. And then there's a little trick to put this in this podcast. If you want to avoid or bypass the

the chatbot, the only thing you have to type in your is live agents, then they will actually get you into, yeah, get you in touch with the real person. I think that there has to be a very strong balance. I did a webinar a while ago about, okay, so where's AI and where are the people? Like, how do we balance this out within a company? Of course, AI is

Rutger Van Faassen (14:58.823)
Live agent, All right, good.

Remco Veenenberg (15:23.747)
cost saving. Yeah, it is. On the other hand, if it generates friction with the customer,

Rutger Van Faassen (15:25.009)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Remco Veenenberg (15:34.264)
you might not retain them which can also pose a problem. So, the best strategy is the best of both worlds basically. But I would really advise companies not to death-trap people into the chatbot loop as I call it where you can't speak to a person where you're stuck with something where you access to frequently asked questions. that are really not bothered by

Rutger Van Faassen (15:52.145)
Yep. Yep.

Remco Veenenberg (16:04.023)
looking at. So keep it human, keep it real. I would put it that way.

Rutger Van Faassen (16:09.319)
Well, yeah, no, that's good. Maybe that's a good point to wrap this up on. So don't replace everything with AI. Keep the human in the loop because like human interaction is important. Thank you Remco for being on the podcast and for doing the Futures Thinking and telling us why you do what you do. was a pleasure to have you on.

Remco Veenenberg (16:20.077)
Yes.

Remco Veenenberg (16:29.987)
Thank you so much, Rutger. It was a pleasure and good luck with all your future podcasts.

Rutger Van Faassen (16:36.701)
And until next time, choose to be curious.

Remco Veenenberg (16:40.066)
Yes, always.